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	<title>Comments for Analytics Insight</title>
	<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog</link>
	<description>                                                                                                                              Illuminating and leveraging customer analytics to enhance small business performance.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 22:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Astonishing! Mailings can actually depress reorder rates!! by sandrar</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-55</link>
		<author>sandrar</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-55</guid>
		<description>Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post... nice! I love your blog.  :) Cheers! Sandra. R.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post&#8230; nice! I love your blog.  <img src='http://deltalytics.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Cheers! Sandra. R.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Astonishing! Mailings can actually depress reorder rates!! by John Taylor</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-52</link>
		<author>John Taylor</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-52</guid>
		<description>I found your blog on Google. I've bookmarked it and will watch out for your next blog post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your blog on Google. I&#8217;ve bookmarked it and will watch out for your next blog post.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The &#8220;Hook Curve&#8221; - a better way to gauge profitability? by zaheenkb</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2008/04/10/the-hook-curve-a-better-way-to-gauge-profitability/#comment-51</link>
		<author>zaheenkb</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 07:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2008/04/10/the-hook-curve-a-better-way-to-gauge-profitability/#comment-51</guid>
		<description>Great Article Lloyd. The insights on analytical marketing were quite educational.

http://www.cequitysolutions.com/cequity-solutions-retail.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Article Lloyd. The insights on analytical marketing were quite educational.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cequitysolutions.com/cequity-solutions-retail.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.cequitysolutions.com/cequity-solutions-retail.php</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on The &#8220;Hook Curve&#8221; - a better way to gauge profitability? by zaheenkb</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2008/04/10/the-hook-curve-a-better-way-to-gauge-profitability/#comment-50</link>
		<author>zaheenkb</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 07:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2008/04/10/the-hook-curve-a-better-way-to-gauge-profitability/#comment-50</guid>
		<description>Great Article Lloyd. The insights on analytical marketing were quite educational.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Article Lloyd. The insights on analytical marketing were quite educational.</p>
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		<title>Comment on LTV - elusive as it is valuable by zaheenkb</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/01/ltv-elusive-as-it-is-valuable/#comment-49</link>
		<author>zaheenkb</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 07:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/01/ltv-elusive-as-it-is-valuable/#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Life time value analytics is an important feature of an industry like telecom analytics also, for it gives the organization an estimation of its most profitable customers and helps business managers to chaff the profitable customers from the unprofitable ones.

Using good LTV analytics framework, hopefully business managers can design and develop strategies that increase the customer life time value, design and develop specific programs to target highly profitable customers.

Great Insight Lloyd, thanks...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Life time value analytics is an important feature of an industry like telecom analytics also, for it gives the organization an estimation of its most profitable customers and helps business managers to chaff the profitable customers from the unprofitable ones.</p>
<p>Using good LTV analytics framework, hopefully business managers can design and develop strategies that increase the customer life time value, design and develop specific programs to target highly profitable customers.</p>
<p>Great Insight Lloyd, thanks&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Astonishing! Mailings can actually depress reorder rates!! by Laura Squier</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-46</link>
		<author>Laura Squier</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Yes - this is an interesting finding and also not terribly surprising.  This result calls for a "Incremental Response" Modeling approach.  

A bit of the ugly details for those of you interested in this modeling approach:

With Incremental Response, we develop 2 (or more) models.  In its simplist state, we develop 1 model to predict if a person will shop give no catalog and a second model to predict if a person will shop if sent a catalog.  

The probability of shopping given no catalog is subtracted from those who will ship if not give a catalog. 

People that have a negative result, meaning the they are less likely to shop are referred to as "Do Not Disturbs."  People who are more likely to shop with the catalog should be sent the catalog.  


Regards,
Laura</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes - this is an interesting finding and also not terribly surprising.  This result calls for a &#8220;Incremental Response&#8221; Modeling approach.  </p>
<p>A bit of the ugly details for those of you interested in this modeling approach:</p>
<p>With Incremental Response, we develop 2 (or more) models.  In its simplist state, we develop 1 model to predict if a person will shop give no catalog and a second model to predict if a person will shop if sent a catalog.  </p>
<p>The probability of shopping given no catalog is subtracted from those who will ship if not give a catalog. </p>
<p>People that have a negative result, meaning the they are less likely to shop are referred to as &#8220;Do Not Disturbs.&#8221;  People who are more likely to shop with the catalog should be sent the catalog.  </p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Laura</p>
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		<title>Comment on LTV - elusive as it is valuable by Zinaida</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/01/ltv-elusive-as-it-is-valuable/#comment-40</link>
		<author>Zinaida</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 03:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/01/ltv-elusive-as-it-is-valuable/#comment-40</guid>
		<description>It has long been looking for this information, Thank you for your work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has long been looking for this information, Thank you for your work.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How profitable promotions can hurt you by Lloyd Merriam</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/06/why-profitable-advertisements-arent-necessarily-desirable/#comment-14</link>
		<author>Lloyd Merriam</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 15:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/06/why-profitable-advertisements-arent-necessarily-desirable/#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Dave,

Thanks for pointing out that my figures were misleading (or, more to the point ... that I failed to qualify them properly).   Looking back at the post now, I don't think I could obfuscated the matter any worse :-(.  What I said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Their future sales and profit were 46% and 57% lower, respectively, than for ads run previously at the regular price (i.e. the LTV of this new group of customers was dramatically lower than existing ones); 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Two words were conspicuously (and fatally missing), and I would have to come to precisely the same conclusion as you in this case.  What I should have said was:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Their future sales and profit were &lt;em&gt;on average&lt;/em&gt; 46% and 57% lower, respectively, than for ads run previously at the regular price (i.e. the LTV of this new group of customers was dramatically lower than existing ones). 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In short, the future value of the 'via discount acquired' customer segment proved to be many-fold less than their normally priced counterparts.  Not only did they order less frequently, when they did purchase their average order size (and profit) was significantly lower, too.  It was also pointed out that repeat customers who responded to the discount promotion subsequently reordered at an 18% lower rate than those who did not.

// &lt;em&gt;To avoid any further confusion I've edited the original post.  Thanks again Dave!&lt;/em&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing out that my figures were misleading (or, more to the point &#8230; that I failed to qualify them properly).   Looking back at the post now, I don&#8217;t think I could obfuscated the matter any worse :-(.  What I said:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Their future sales and profit were 46% and 57% lower, respectively, than for ads run previously at the regular price (i.e. the LTV of this new group of customers was dramatically lower than existing ones);
</p></blockquote>
<p>Two words were conspicuously (and fatally missing), and I would have to come to precisely the same conclusion as you in this case.  What I should have said was:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Their future sales and profit were <em>on average</em> 46% and 57% lower, respectively, than for ads run previously at the regular price (i.e. the LTV of this new group of customers was dramatically lower than existing ones).
</p></blockquote>
<p>In short, the future value of the &#8216;via discount acquired&#8217; customer segment proved to be many-fold less than their normally priced counterparts.  Not only did they order less frequently, when they did purchase their average order size (and profit) was significantly lower, too.  It was also pointed out that repeat customers who responded to the discount promotion subsequently reordered at an 18% lower rate than those who did not.</p>
<p>// <em>To avoid any further confusion I&#8217;ve edited the original post.  Thanks again Dave!</em></p>
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		<title>Comment on Astonishing! Mailings can actually depress reorder rates!! by Lloyd Merriam</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-13</link>
		<author>Lloyd Merriam</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 19:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-13</guid>
		<description>I would like to apologize for a couple of things before continuing with this thread... 

First, I was preoccupied with a number of other things (in particular, selling my other software company so I could focus exclusively on Deltalytics) and completely neglected this blog for several &lt;em&gt;months&lt;/em&gt;.  I'm back on it, though, with renewed energy and a higher sense of purpose.  Second, my blog's spam filter didn't behave as expected and these comments were held up in a queue I didn't notice until now.  Gee, I hate when that happens!

My responses to these much appreciated earlier comments follows --

(1) To David Raab who said "Other possible reason: people didn’t see what they wanted in the catalog and dropped the company from their list of places to consider buying from, not realizing the Web site would include additional products not shown in the catalog."

-- This is an interesting - and I think perfectly valid - twist on my original thought that .. 'The catalog “soured” their opinion of the company Perhaps simply by receiving the catalog, the shopper no longer viewed the company as “a cool place {read website} to shop,” but instead is now seen as another one of those catalog deals, and, therefore, not worth bothering with.'  However, I'd be willing to bet that the catalog, at least in in this case, fairly represented the company's product mix if not completely. // I'll check with John Lenser to see and will report back.

(2) Nick Radcliffe provided an insightful perspective on negative retention effects and notes that he has observed this phenomenon many times in his consulting practice. 

-- Nick included a link to his excellent "Optimal Retention Strategies" article [ see http://stochasticsolutions.com/retention.html ] wherein he describes the mechanisms by which attempts to positively engage the customer can have the opposite effect, viz. defection.  Sometimes, in fact, it's best to leave happy customers alone (so as not to annoy them); likewise the unhappy ones (reminding them of their displeasure can elicit an undesirable behavioral reaction, e.g. realizing and deciding that they never want do business with you again). It's a tougher and more delicate balancing act than is typically acknowledged.  In short - and I believe Nick would agree - the risk of promotions depressing reorder rates (including, if not especially, retention efforts) can and should be mitigated whenever practical; but can never be eliminated entirely.

(3) Martin Davis said: "I believe that the main force causing decreased response rates discussed above results from the email campaigns that preceeded or ran concurrently with the catalog mailed. The email satisfied the demand for the offer for this customer group. CMC has noticed increased response rates when it blasted an email asking customers to “look out” for the upcoming catalog in their mail box.  Also, I’d love to know how many sku’s these Lenser companies had. Currently, internet browsing does not come close to replicating the experience of flipping the pages of a paper base catalog."

-- I'm not sure I completely follow [a] even if Martin's assumption - that email campaigns ran prior or current to the catalog drop - is correct.  Even if the email(s) had some behavioral impact, this observation begs the question of why the catalog-mailed segment would have reordered at such a dramatically lower rate.  Indeed, &lt;em&gt;no what matter else&lt;/em&gt; may have been going on during the catalog group, we must presume that no bias existed between the two test panels.  Here again is Lenser's summary to refresh our memories ..

&lt;blockquote&gt; 

In a recent test we conducted with a client, we created two panels of 50,000 customers each, both groups acquired on the marketer’s e-commerce site within the past three months — neither had been mailed a catalog.  One panel was mailed a 48-page catalog; the other was not mailed. Based on a later matchback to the mail files, the one-time buyers not mailed the catalog responded at 3.7 percent, while those mailed the catalog responded at 2.1 percent. Of the two-time-plus buyers, those not mailed a catalog responded at 8.5 percent; those mailed responded at 3.6 percent.  Panels also were created for older buyers. For buyers who previously had purchased more than 13 months ago, those not mailed responded at 3.4 percent; those mailed responded at 2.8 percent. This isn’t a one-time test. We’ve repeated this test with several clients and seen similar results.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Even if these two panels were treated differently (a sophomoric mistake I don't believe the Lenser people are likely to have made), we're still left with the question of &lt;em&gt;why&lt;/em&gt; the catalog-mailed group reordered at a significantly lower rate?  Which brings us back to square one, viz. the puzzling observation that receiving the catalog "put off" these customer somehow.  Back to Martin's comment ... I'm not surprised that a heads-up email advising customers to look for an upcoming catalog in the mailbox had a positive effect.  This can create a positive anticipation and associated void in the customer's mind (i.e. something to look forward to) which is fulfilled and relieved when the catalog arrives.  All it takes is for some statistically meaningful number of customers to &lt;strong&gt;open&lt;/strong&gt; the catalog, rather than tossing it immediately into the trash, to increase response rate.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to apologize for a couple of things before continuing with this thread&#8230; </p>
<p>First, I was preoccupied with a number of other things (in particular, selling my other software company so I could focus exclusively on Deltalytics) and completely neglected this blog for several <em>months</em>.  I&#8217;m back on it, though, with renewed energy and a higher sense of purpose.  Second, my blog&#8217;s spam filter didn&#8217;t behave as expected and these comments were held up in a queue I didn&#8217;t notice until now.  Gee, I hate when that happens!</p>
<p>My responses to these much appreciated earlier comments follows &#8211;</p>
<p>(1) To David Raab who said &#8220;Other possible reason: people didn’t see what they wanted in the catalog and dropped the company from their list of places to consider buying from, not realizing the Web site would include additional products not shown in the catalog.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8211; This is an interesting - and I think perfectly valid - twist on my original thought that .. &#8216;The catalog “soured” their opinion of the company Perhaps simply by receiving the catalog, the shopper no longer viewed the company as “a cool place {read website} to shop,” but instead is now seen as another one of those catalog deals, and, therefore, not worth bothering with.&#8217;  However, I&#8217;d be willing to bet that the catalog, at least in in this case, fairly represented the company&#8217;s product mix if not completely. // I&#8217;ll check with John Lenser to see and will report back.</p>
<p>(2) Nick Radcliffe provided an insightful perspective on negative retention effects and notes that he has observed this phenomenon many times in his consulting practice. </p>
<p>&#8211; Nick included a link to his excellent &#8220;Optimal Retention Strategies&#8221; article [ see <a href="http://stochasticsolutions.com/retention.html" rel="nofollow">http://stochasticsolutions.com/retention.html</a> ] wherein he describes the mechanisms by which attempts to positively engage the customer can have the opposite effect, viz. defection.  Sometimes, in fact, it&#8217;s best to leave happy customers alone (so as not to annoy them); likewise the unhappy ones (reminding them of their displeasure can elicit an undesirable behavioral reaction, e.g. realizing and deciding that they never want do business with you again). It&#8217;s a tougher and more delicate balancing act than is typically acknowledged.  In short - and I believe Nick would agree - the risk of promotions depressing reorder rates (including, if not especially, retention efforts) can and should be mitigated whenever practical; but can never be eliminated entirely.</p>
<p>(3) Martin Davis said: &#8220;I believe that the main force causing decreased response rates discussed above results from the email campaigns that preceeded or ran concurrently with the catalog mailed. The email satisfied the demand for the offer for this customer group. CMC has noticed increased response rates when it blasted an email asking customers to “look out” for the upcoming catalog in their mail box.  Also, I’d love to know how many sku’s these Lenser companies had. Currently, internet browsing does not come close to replicating the experience of flipping the pages of a paper base catalog.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8211; I&#8217;m not sure I completely follow [a] even if Martin&#8217;s assumption - that email campaigns ran prior or current to the catalog drop - is correct.  Even if the email(s) had some behavioral impact, this observation begs the question of why the catalog-mailed segment would have reordered at such a dramatically lower rate.  Indeed, <em>no what matter else</em> may have been going on during the catalog group, we must presume that no bias existed between the two test panels.  Here again is Lenser&#8217;s summary to refresh our memories ..</p>
<blockquote>
<p>In a recent test we conducted with a client, we created two panels of 50,000 customers each, both groups acquired on the marketer’s e-commerce site within the past three months — neither had been mailed a catalog.  One panel was mailed a 48-page catalog; the other was not mailed. Based on a later matchback to the mail files, the one-time buyers not mailed the catalog responded at 3.7 percent, while those mailed the catalog responded at 2.1 percent. Of the two-time-plus buyers, those not mailed a catalog responded at 8.5 percent; those mailed responded at 3.6 percent.  Panels also were created for older buyers. For buyers who previously had purchased more than 13 months ago, those not mailed responded at 3.4 percent; those mailed responded at 2.8 percent. This isn’t a one-time test. We’ve repeated this test with several clients and seen similar results.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Even if these two panels were treated differently (a sophomoric mistake I don&#8217;t believe the Lenser people are likely to have made), we&#8217;re still left with the question of <em>why</em> the catalog-mailed group reordered at a significantly lower rate?  Which brings us back to square one, viz. the puzzling observation that receiving the catalog &#8220;put off&#8221; these customer somehow.  Back to Martin&#8217;s comment &#8230; I&#8217;m not surprised that a heads-up email advising customers to look for an upcoming catalog in the mailbox had a positive effect.  This can create a positive anticipation and associated void in the customer&#8217;s mind (i.e. something to look forward to) which is fulfilled and relieved when the catalog arrives.  All it takes is for some statistically meaningful number of customers to <strong>open</strong> the catalog, rather than tossing it immediately into the trash, to increase response rate.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Astonishing! Mailings can actually depress reorder rates!! by martin davis</title>
		<link>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-11</link>
		<author>martin davis</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://deltalytics.org/blog/2007/08/22/astonishing-mailings-can-dramatically-depress-reorder-rate/#comment-11</guid>
		<description>I believe that the main force causing decreased response rates discussed above results from the email campaigns that preceeded or ran concurrently with the catalog mailed.  The email satisfied the demand for the offer for this customer group.  

CMC has noticed increased response rates when it blasted an email asking customers to "look out" for the upcoming catalog in their mail box.  Also, I'd love to know how many sku's these Lenser companies had.  Currently, internet browsing does not come close to replicating the experience of flipping the pages of a paper base catalog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that the main force causing decreased response rates discussed above results from the email campaigns that preceeded or ran concurrently with the catalog mailed.  The email satisfied the demand for the offer for this customer group.  </p>
<p>CMC has noticed increased response rates when it blasted an email asking customers to &#8220;look out&#8221; for the upcoming catalog in their mail box.  Also, I&#8217;d love to know how many sku&#8217;s these Lenser companies had.  Currently, internet browsing does not come close to replicating the experience of flipping the pages of a paper base catalog.</p>
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